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My first time in Latvia, impressions from an American

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Bro Profile Pictures: 3
Male Girls Lover 
#15 | Posted: 21 Oct 2010 12:18 | Edited by: Bro
If we build conclusions that way, Russians in Latvia is the same type "minority" as an ethnic group in many other countries. Latvia will count its citizens next year more precisely, following statistics we have now, there are only about 58% of root Latvians (!) and about 30% of Russians living here. It's closely the same kind of proportion as we have for Andorra, Bahrain, Belize, Bermuda, Bhutan, Brazil, Iran, Kazakhstan, Estonia, Niger, Sudan, Svalbard. So not only Latvia should solve this "problem", which, in general, is not even the problem - while living in US, you probably know that there the nationality is not that important, because it's full of various ethnic groups; important is only race. US wars were all based on race's conflicts. Americans is not a nation.

But from above countries, which we don't know a lot about from news, I must mention one country that we all know. Bosnia and Herzegovina. Bosniak 48%, Serb 37.1%, Croat 14.3% - what we have in result?

War.

This is the only way to solve the problem in Latvia, too. Unfortunately. This is most likely is being prepared now, as in Lielvarde, we already have built the big military airport for biggest NATO planes. Truly saying, there is still no war by this moment, because Latvia is a land of peace so far, by default. Russians living here don't want any war - they already experienced it just 60 years ago. Latvians are too weak, too small to fight for their rights. They know they will lose.

So I think, the God blessed American daddy will have rules this land, sooner or later It's already started...
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Guy from USA 
Male Forums Member 
#16 | Posted: 22 Oct 2010 03:11 | Edited by: Guy from USA
There won't be a war in Latvia and if there was, Russia would step in and NATO and the USA wouldn't do anything about it. It would be just like what happened in Georgia, Russia went in and did what it wanted, Georgia cried to the USA for help, and the USA did nothing.

The city I live in has more people than the entire country of Latvia, Latvia has no oil, so no one in the USA would care what Russia did to Latvia and the Europeans let genocide occur for years in Bosnia before the USA had to step in and fix yet another problem in Europe. We had to step in during WWI and WWII to help Europe out and that won't be happening again with Iraq and Afghanistan going on. Americans are sick of war even though the USA spends more on defense than the rest of the entire world combined. Latvia needs to worry about pissing Russia off b/c they will be on their own if they push things too far. 99% of Americans have never even heard of Latvia, when people hear my wife's accent, they always ask where she is from, she says Latvia, and it is always amusing to see the puzzled look on their face. Then she says it is by Russia, and they say, "Oh ok" to end an awkward moment. It must be weird for her to come from a place that most Americans don't even know exists.

My wife and I met one of her Russian friends in Latvia that spoke Latvian and Russian. She had just had a child and I asked her what languages the child would speak, she replied only Russian. I was shocked that she wouldn't want her child to speak both languages as it would probably only serve to help the child in life. If Russians in Latvia have attitudes like that the country is never going to get it together. The Latvians will continue to persecute the Russians and the Russians will just be more angry about it and the country will never come together. The Latvian government has to find a way to bring the Russians together with the Latvians instead of feeding the hatred. Latvia treats the Russians pretty shitty and cannot forget the past. Americans forget the past quickly, Europeans seem to never forgive and move forward.

I must say, I am glad my wife is successful, she make about $60,000 a year and I doubt most men in Latvia make that much money and she is only 26 working for only 3 years. She came back to visit Latvia with big diamonds in her ears, a huge diamond on her hand and wearing a Rolex, and we have zero debt. She came to the USA just like immigrants have for 200 years and succeeded.

My advice to ALL Latvian women. Come to the USA. The men will treat you much better than Latvian men will and you will have a much better chance to succeed in life.
Bro Profile Pictures: 3
Male Girls Lover 
#17 | Posted: 23 Oct 2010 13:32
From the geographical point of view, Latvia is a bridge between East and West, and strategically, it is a very important place for NATO and US. You don't have to doubt on it. That's why US is *already* here. I actually believe US now is the country which sets rules of government in Latvia. Recent elections results proved that.

It seems your conclusions are only based on one "theory of worldwide order" which you get from the mass media, probably US mass media. Do you know about the other side of US? Have you even seen the movie called "Zeitgeist" for example? I wouldn't be so sure...

$60,000 a year is not the reason why women should relocate to US. 3500 EUR per month means a very regular salary in European Union for a regularly educated person. Money is not so far if you want them. BTW, $60000/y - does it include the tax or not?

I think, my advice to all Latvian women before coming to USA would be to think about it more deeply. USA is not a dreams land anymore. Dreams land can't have 13 billion dollars in debt.

Additionally, what I really think is important for US "nation", if we talk about women's fresh blood - the genetics. I think US is losing a "white face". Slavic Caucasian women were always being the best amongst Asian or Black. They are Pearls of this dirty planet.
Guy from USA 
Male Forums Member 
#18 | Posted: 23 Oct 2010 17:26 | Edited by: Guy from USA
Bro:
From the geographical point of view, Latvia is a bridge between East and West, and strategically, it is a very important place for NATO and US. You don't have to doubt on it. That's why US is *already* here. I actually believe US now is the country which sets rules of government in Latvia. Recent elections results proved that.

It seems your conclusions are only based on one "theory of worldwide order" which you get from the mass media, probably US mass media. Do you know about the other side of US? Have you even seen the movie called "Zeitgeist" for example? I wouldn't be so sure...

If it is in a move it must be true, right??? LOL.... You seem to have a very weird conspiratorial view of the world

Debt only matters as a % of GDP, but I am sure you knew that already.

My wife will be making $120,000-$150,000 very easily in the next 5 years. She has just began her career. I wonder what the average salary for a woman in Latvia is 5 years out of college?

Bottomline, ALL Latvian women would have a better life in the USA than in Latvia. They would be treated MUCH BETTER by American men and they wouldn't be treated like 2nd class citizens like they get treated in Latvia.

Bro, you have a very condescending view towards women. You want to keep them down and suppress them. You see women as servants to men. I want women to succeed in life to the best of their abilities. I wonder which view Latvian women prefer, yours or mine?????

There is a reason why all of my wife's friends have come to the USA and married American men and stayed in the USA.
yuta Profile Pictures: 2
Female Lady Blady 
#19 | Posted: 25 Oct 2010 12:22
Guy from USA:
I wonder what the average salary for a woman in Latvia is 5 years out of college?

Are we talking just about salary here? Relocating to another country means a lot behind of this. I personally would prefer earn less, but live more comfortably, on my own land, with my own family of natives and friends, with a chance to visit my ancestors cemeteries at least once in a year.

I don't think marrying a foreigner, specially a man from USA, is something new for our women. Like any other, this dream has only one positive side. Who knows how's the other side will look like. Specially for America.

Even when I was a 'teen, I've had so many dreams to travel around the world, to see people, new lands, and this dream partially come true, I am traveling a lot right now 'cause it's my profession - BUT I never had a dream about US, or marrying an American. Like Bro wrote above, now we have all doors open to Europe, or even Middle East (where BTW we have A LOT of our girls relocated and married Arabs), I don't understand - what is so special about America you would tell us in facts? WHY America is better than other countries?

Guy from USA:
They would be treated MUCH BETTER by American men and they wouldn't be treated like 2nd class citizens like they get treated in Latvia.

We should get the point what is "better" and what is "worst" in this case for our women. The main question, I think, is that if a woman really understands what she wants. I think any woman who understands, will be treated nice, in any country.

I don't know where did you get the impression that women are 2nd class citizens in Latvia. Even having such domain forums, we have a special accent on this subject - women are not 2nd class, they are 1st class, in Latvia! If your wife was a 2nd class citizen here, it doesn't mean that every woman belongs to this class.

You talk so much about your wife's salary - but how about yours? Do you earn more than your wife, or do you just a servant to your wife?

I'm still re-reading the article above, I really liked Dace Ruksane's quote regarding "The smartest girls are alone. The really beautiful girls are alone - if they are smart". There are no jokes or irony in this saying. That's a sad fact - if a girl earns more than a lot, men start to look at her like she would be a purse, not a woman. I know it from my own experience.
Plomb 
Male Admin 
#20 | Posted: 25 Oct 2010 14:07 | Edited by: Plomb
I didn't mess this topic up with my absurd tellings, but it looks like I have to add my 2 cents. Because of that:

Guy from USA:
It would be just like what happened in Georgia, Russia went in and did what it wanted, Georgia cried to the USA for help, and the USA did nothing.

Guy, do you really know what was the conflict in Georgia about? Do you really think it's so a simple question - just call the USA, and they will be ready to help? Do you think that if you watched about this conflict in TV news, you know the true about it??? Let me ask your own question - what is your education?

USA are not interested nor in Georgia, nor in Latvia. The only things they are interested in, are resources.

Otherwise, Russia came to Georgia because of Abkhazians. There was - yes, like the Bro mentioned above - the conflict of two nations. Abkhazians relied on Russia's help because they weren't physically able to do something warriors. Then Russia helped them, and after all, they even proclaimed the Republic of Abkhazia.

In Latvia, we have a completely different situation. I don't even know how it could be compared to Georgia. First of all, Latvians will never ask for Russia's help, so there's basically no reason why Russia should come here even if war starts. Second, Russians living in Latvia, are not interested to live in Russia's part. Most of them have ancestors living here for hundred years. It's truly their land. Besides of it, let's not forget there are A LOT of other cultures living in Latvia. Poles, Ukrainians, Gypsies, Hebrews. They all have something important in Latvia and can't rely on Russia as Abkhazians, not even saying they can't build a standalone Republic.

There are simply no reasons for it...

Guy from USA:
USA had to step in and fix yet another problem in Europe

Oh My Gosh, you truly believe in USA, you are a real American! You really think USA fixes problems, ha-ha-ha!! Like a big daddy!! I must say, before going to another continent, fix problems IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY, yanks!
Guy from USA 
Male Forums Member 
#21 | Posted: 26 Oct 2010 01:53 | Edited by: Guy from USA
Plomb:
Oh My Gosh, you truly believe in USA, you are a real American! You really think USA fixes problems, ha-ha-ha!! Like a big daddy!! I must say, before going to another continent, fix problems IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY, yanks!

I graduated from college and have a master's degree in finance to answer your question on my education.

Regarding your quote above...I guess World War I, World War II and Bosnia never occurred? Germany would have won WWI if it weren't for the USA, and if the USA wouldn't have opened up a second front in WWII, Germany would have easily won that war too. Europe did nothing while genocide occurred in Bosnia for YEARS, so the USA had to step in and bomb the Serbs to stop the genocide. Those are the facts, if you choose not to believe them then that is your prerogative.

I am well versed in the politics of Georgia. The fact is Georgia was too aggressive in its actions because they thought that the USA would back them. Georgia's aggression gave Russia the opportunity to do as it pleased and currently, right now, Russia has troops on the ground on Georgian soil not just in Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

In regards to Yuta's question, moving to Western Europe is just as good of a choice for Latvian women. People just need to go where the best opportunities are, and right now, I don't think Latvia is full of opportunities.

I don't mean to be confrontational at all, Bro just wanted to argue a bit and he also has very perverse opinions so I was reacting to his ridiculous views.

I started the thread to just have dialog with Latvians, if they had any questions that I might be able to assist with, or where curious on my impressions of Latvia.

Plomb, I have a few questions for you
. Why do the Russians that live in Latvia refuse to assimilate into Latvia? Why do Russians living in Latvia refuse to embrace Latvia as their country and still identify themselves as Russians and not Latvians? Why do some Russians that live in Latvia refuse to learn the Latvian language?
Plomb 
Male Admin 
#22 | Posted: 26 Oct 2010 11:33
Despite we have confrontational opinions here, we appreciate your topic. Seriously. Hearing a different opinion is always worth. But I think we should not go deeper because it's not for our current forums. You must agree that not me, not you actually didn't take part in WWII, nor in war in Abkhazia. Every information we get, comes from TV, Internet, mass media, books and can not be trusted a priori, because it can't be validated by the modern individual. But then you also must agree any information can be faked. And it is faked. There is war of information around us. Everywhere, right now. The only true comes from belief. You believe in your country, I believe in what I feel by heart. No problem.

Answering questions:

Guy from USA:
Why do the Russians that live in Latvia refuse to assimilate into Latvia?

You don't have to say for all Russians living here. Most of them already got the citizens passport, which actually gives them the freedom of relocation in European Union. Actually it's the only con which Latvian passport gives. Also, as you might know, we already have the immigration law improved which allows to get Latvian citizenship following some financial conditions. So everybody is allowed to use this, and it is used.

Answering for those people who are "refusing to assimilate", let's imagine the following: you are now 40-50 years old. The most active part of life is gone. Your brain doesn't work that good as when you were 20, and the memory, too. As you might know, the older you get, the harder is to learn new things. I know a man 55-years old who tried to solve the theoretical auto driving exam. It took 15 attempts for him. If you would be 20, it takes 1 attempt. Just to compare.

Assimilation exam is the same. You must know the language better than any Latvian, you must know the history which is fake, in very deep details. And the same time most Latvians didn't hear about their ancestor, Edward Leedskalnin, who built the coral castle in Florida, which is NOT fake; but they bravely rewrote the history of WWI and WWII.

For people who devoted their lives to this country, it is humiliating. Additionally, for most of them it's really difficult. There are no so many advantages comparing to how many nerves they should kill. It's all the question of advantages and disadvantages.

And until they don't have the citizenship, they could much more easily travel to Russia or Belarus, those countries give some advantages to the huge Latvian "non-citizens" army, or like they are called "Negroids", by an s-word in America. Somebody likes Europe, somebody loves Russia. That's all.

It's truly not their problem. It's political problem, in general. And this problem will come out sooner or later in more critical points.

Guy from USA:
Why do Russians living in Latvia refuse to embrace Latvia as their country and still identify themselves as Russians and not Latvians?

It's hard to explain for a person which doesn't come from a Nation. Do you really feel some of your deep ancestors roots?

Then come to Bosnia and say: why don't you want to become Bosniaks? Or come to your black neighbor and ask: why don't you want to become white? My answer would be the same... Russians are Russians, Latvians are Latvians, and we all live on the same bridge. Such questions always suck because we need to give ourselves completely other questions. Such questions destroy the country.

Guy from USA:
Why do some Russians that live in Latvia refuse to learn the Latvian language?

Ok, this time I liked the word "some". I already answered above: partially because most of such Russians are over the age when you can easily adopt a new language. I suppose everybody living in Latvia for years, knows the Latvian language even without big learning. Specially youth. Everybody understands Latvian here.

But the most important in any communication, I think, is not to know the language like it would be your native (this is what Latvian politicians are pressing on). Important is that two persons can understand each other. You can speak English, and I will understand you, despite I can't speak English that well. Somebody speaks Latvian, and despite I can't speak Latvian well, I will answer in Russian, and the person will understand me, too. That's how the human law formula should work. Without giving such confrontational questions like you give.

On another hand, Russian is

Wikipedia:
the most geographically widespread language of Eurasia, the most widely spoken of the Slavic languages, and the largest native language in Europe.

Latvian is

Wikipedia:
the official state language of Latvia. It is also sometimes referred to as Lettish. There are about 1.4 million native Latvian speakers in Latvia and about 150,000 abroad.

So, doesn't your question sound funny now, huh?..

Ask any person which language he prefers to study. The language which is spoken by a little tribal group, or language which is spoken by the whole Eurasia? It's a fact: put a Latvian baby in a Russian kindergarten, and in a few months s/he will speak Russian. Then put a Russian baby in a Latvian kindergarten, and in a few months all kids will speak Russian.

Russian language is the majority. Russians are majority. I don't need any proofs of that. I don't need to chew your tellings like

Guy from USA:
if the USA wouldn't have opened up a second front in WWII, Germany would have easily won that war too

Oh common. Russians won this war. If there wouldn't be a Russian spirit, not if USA wouldn't have opened a front.

Now I think you may understand why questions like you gave me, do not have sense...
yuta Profile Pictures: 2
Female Lady Blady 
#23 | Posted: 26 Oct 2010 20:11 | Edited by: yuta
Plomb:
why Russia should come here even if war starts

That's why the Latvian girls are here! We don't need, no more trouble!

Plomb, I see this question hurts you, if you are on the bridge, please calm down - it's dangerous, you can ruin it with such movements!

Guy from USA
Ok, you've mentioned WW1, but how's then USA was involved in it, in your opinion?

I think, any war has no sense in terms of human being. You'll find no woman which tell you she loves violence (of course there may be rare exclusions but they are truly rare). So we don't have to find winners and losers. We don't have to lose our children because of somebody's subjective ambitions. War is bad.

Also, let's take Nike of Samothrace, have you ever heard about such sculpture? Despite missing the head and arms, this sculpture is still considered to be one of the finest examples of Hellenistic sculpture. It's something that comes from all human race ancestors. The sculpture doesn't have arms and a head. The most known version for it is that they were lost.

There is also the other opinion - the Victory Goddess, actually, has no head, because only having no head, you could start the war, and no arms, because this is what you got after the war is ended. A sculptor who build this masterpiece, intentionally cut these parts off, after the whole sculpture was created, and destroyed them.

That's all about it.

Think about it... our predecessors passed through it all...
Nike of Samothrace sculpture
Nike of Samothrace sculpture
yuta Profile Pictures: 2
Female Lady Blady 
#24 | Posted: 26 Oct 2010 20:57
Guy from USA
BTW, I still didn't get the picture - do you earn more than your wife, or not? I don't need exact numbers... just a confirmation of this?..
Guy from USA 
Male Forums Member 
#25 | Posted: 27 Oct 2010 00:20 | Edited by: Guy from USA
I earn double what my wife makes, but I wouldn't care if she made double what I made.

Plomb, thank you for your answers.

If either of you have any questions for me, I would be happy to answer them.

Here is a little history of WWII below, if you are interested. The USA was trying to decide whether it should just sit back and let Germany and Russia destroy themselves, but it was decided letting Germany win would be worse.

http://www.pbs.org/behindcloseddoors/episode-1/ep1_second_front.html

The link is about how Russia begged the USA to open up a second front in WWII because the Russians were scared they were going to lose to the Germans without it. The USA made him wait a few more years before the USA decided to save Stalin and Russia in WWII. It is amazing that Russians think they actually won the war. Russia would have lost miserably to the Germans if it weren't for the 2nd front and Stalin knew this.

"Soviets were taking a beating at the hands of the Germans and were eager for the U.S. to attack Germany from the west, across the English channel, through France. Stalin needed his allies to launch a full-scale invasion of western Europe to divert German forces from the Eastern Front. In other words, he was in desperate need of a Second Front.

But in 1942 & 43, the U.S. and Britain concentrated their fighting against Germany & Italy in the Mediterranean and Middle East, mostly North Africa. These months spent in N. Africa allowed the U.S. time to mobilize and to learn hard tactical lessons. In 1943, U.S. troops finally came up through Italy, and though there was some success in that operation, it bogged down the Allies and soaked up Allied resources.

The Allies were assisting Soviets with supplies and $, but not troops. Meanwhile, Soviets were suffering millions of casualties and physical devastation of their land and infrastructure. Yet, the Soviets exhibited remarkable bravery and skilled fighting, all of which earned the admiration of their American allies. Still, the Allies delayed actual military assistance to the Soviets. Allied military leaders explained their tactical reasons for doing so, but a comment made by Vice-President Harry Truman in 1941 is revealing: If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia, and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany and that way let them kill as many as possible, although I don't want to see Hitler victorious under any circumstances. Soviets were very suspicious of their Allies for delaying the opening of the Second Front, certain that America wanted the Soviets and Germans to destroy each other.

Finally, western Allies opened the Second Front. On D-Day, June 6, 1944, in a daring and risky operation, the American troops invaded the coast of Normandy in northwestern France. (See film Saving Private Ryan.) Over the summer, the Allies slowly moved across France toward Germany the largest U.S. operation of the war.

Fast forward to collapse of Nazi empire in spring of 1945. Soviets had already occupied most of Eastern Europe, including the eastern part of Germany, by that time."


So then after the war, Russia decides to occupy most of eastern europe take the freedom away from millions of people and make all of their lives hell for 50 years.....Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Belarus, Chech Reputlic, Slovakia.....etc. etc.


Then Russia decides to take the USA on in the "cold war" and of course the USA won yet again.


When Gorbachev came to the USA once while still in office he was flying in a plane over Texas, he couldn't believe how big the houses were, how everyone had big pools in their back yards. He couldn't believe the wealth in the USA. He later stated once he saw that he knew there was no way Russia could ever win the Cold War. Those are Gorbachev's own words.
Plomb 
Male Admin 
#26 | Posted: 27 Oct 2010 18:26
I'm impressed how just one reference to some kind of of online document, which doesn't contain nothing obviously true, and doesn't contain any fact or proof of telling, just conclusions without facts, is building the whole theory in your mind!

Just to say once again - think more carefully of what kind of information do you get and where it comes from. Even until now, we have live witnesses, which have been participated in this war, and which were survived in this war. By their words, USA were obviously not involved in this war like it appears to be promoted now.

I know that yanks may be really happy now, because they are told in schools, TV- and Internet, that without them, there would be no victory in this war for Russians. That makes US nation even more powerful. That's how US propaganda works.

Propaganda was always the most powerful weapon of US. Even if you look how information technologies are controlled now - Google, eBay, Microsoft, Apple - they are all American trends. You will never see a computer made by Russians, you won't use the software programmed and branded by Russians, because Russia is too weak to be a leading country in these technologies now. And it always has been weak in propaganda.

By my opinion, it's just another informational myth. You guys are lucky, because most of Russians don't understand and speak English well. Such articles are only for those who understand English, or may be for Latvian government. If you would read tons of documents in Russian, you would be impressed, how really the Russian point of view differs from this.

I truly believe if Russia would make hundreds of webpages, like provided above, but with its own point of view, thus you wouldn't really know, where it is true and where it's not, you would be confused a lot.

And right now, what we have, is the war of information. World Wide War III.

Russia decides to occupy? It's a favorite topic for the new Latvian government - occupation. I am not going to argue it - but we just have to agree on what "the occupation" means. If it means "the term of control of a territory by foreign military forces" (I can't find the most proper definition), then Latvia is the same way occupied now by NATO today.

And if you look deeper in our history, you will see the country always has been occupied. Only comparing to USSR, other foreign invaders didn't build houses here, didn't create new roads (we are STILL driving on the old USSR roads - because we didn't build our own!! - f**k, what kind of occupation is this about??), they only raped our women and destroyed the society. In USSR times, all Latvians were allowed to learn in their native language, Latvian language was everywhere, books, newspapers, TV, radio; and Latvians were educated MUCH MORE better than it happens now, when our education is in a big hole.

What kind of occupation is meant there?..

Guy from USA:
Then Russia decides to take the USA on in the "cold war" and of course the USA won yet again.

Ah the keyword is of course!! USA are always the winner, it can't be different!!

And other articles like this... Pffff, It's not a PROOF for me, man! Nor for me, nor for other normally thinking person... it only makes even more fun to look on hydra, which sooner or later will eat itself...
yuta Profile Pictures: 2
Female Lady Blady 
#27 | Posted: 27 Oct 2010 20:11
Guy from USA:
I earn double what my wife makes, but I wouldn't care if she made double what I made.

That's what I thought.

Oh well, until you are not in it, you never know!

To the "war" discussion, I could add only this: be aware of what is not obvious... Plomb, you are taking this too seriously It may be a provocation. Take it easy
Guy from USA 
Male Forums Member 
#28 | Posted: 28 Oct 2010 01:24 | Edited by: Guy from USA
Plomb

My wife told me about the problems between Russians and Latvians in Latvia regarding how the Russians there identified themselves as Russians more than Latvians. I didn't believe it, but after speaking with you and seeing how you so strongly identify yourself as a Russian in most of your responses, I now know that my wife was right about the attitudes that the Russians have in Latvia. As long as there are Russians living in Latvia that identify themselves in their own mind as Russian before Latvian the country will always have enormous problems. All of the people, like you, that identify themselves as Russian before Latvian in their thoughts and actions need to realize that Latvia can never succeed with attitudes like yours. I am glad I got to converse with someone like you over this, you seem very intelligent, but your views make it very obvious how you are a Russian before you are a Latvian. I would term you a Russian living in Latvia and not even Latvian.

Immigrants come to the USA and want to be Americans that is why the USA is the richest (by GDP) and the most powerful country (by military) the world has ever seen in all of history. Immigrants are what make the USA great, they come here to be an American. They can still have ties to their home countries, but they are Americans first.

And by the way, Yuta was correct, I was provoking you, sorry, but I had to see if what my wife said about Russians living in Latvia was true, and apparently it is.

Now since I found out what I wanted to find out...Do any of you have any questions for me?
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